{"id":3911,"date":"2019-08-15T17:34:04","date_gmt":"2019-08-15T17:34:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/2019\/08\/15\/save-ends\/"},"modified":"2019-08-16T22:39:18","modified_gmt":"2019-08-16T22:39:18","slug":"save-ends","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/?p=3911","title":{"rendered":"Save Ends"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Warning: D&amp;D 4E blather ahead. Not a gamer or a fan? Probably not for you.<\/p>\n<p>As many of you already know, the purpose of the saving throw mechanic changed in 4E. It&#8217;s no longer to avoid a given effect; that&#8217;s what the array of defenses are for. Rather, it&#8217;s a (normally) fixed difficulty to shake off an effect. Its purpose, on the meta-level, is to take the place of duration-tracking. You no longer have to keep track of whether it&#8217;s been three rounds or four since the effect began; you just roll each round to see if it ends.<\/p>\n<p>And that&#8217;s fine, as far as it goes. It definitely runs more smoothly in <em>that<\/em> respect.<\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately, the ease and smoothness break down when you get to powers that <em>aren&#8217;t<\/em> &quot;save ends.&quot; Powers or effects with durations like:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Until the start of your next turn.<\/li>\n<li>Until the end of your next turn.<\/li>\n<li>Until the start of the target&#8217;s next turn.<\/li>\n<li>Until the end of the target&#8217;s next turn.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>I find that those often become something of a headache to track. Oh, it can be done&#8211;it can be done fairly smoothly by a well-prepared DM&#8211;but it still gets tedious, at times.<\/p>\n<p>As I may be running a game in the near future&#8211;for the first time in a few years, I must admit&#8211;I&#8217;ve been contemplating this. And I&#8217;ve come up with a house rule that I&#8217;d like to test, but I&#8217;m interested in what other gamers think.<\/p>\n<p>In essence, I would eliminate every one of the aforementioned durations. <em>Every<\/em> power with an ongoing effect is &quot;save ends.&quot; <em>But<\/em>&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>There are now <em>two<\/em> levels of saving throw. Every power that is currently a &quot;save ends&quot; power gets a &quot;hard save,&quot; which is 10+, as the game currently stands. Every power that currently has an &quot;until X&quot; duration gets an &quot;easy save,&quot; which is 6+.<\/p>\n<p>The practical effects of this are that, <em>most of the time<\/em>, such powers will only last until the end of the creature&#8217;s next turn. (And with solos, they&#8217;ll automatically end, since the +5 save bonus means even a 1 makes the 6 DC, and saves aren&#8217;t included in the &quot;auto-hit\/auto-miss&quot; rules that apply to attack rolls.) But <em>on occasion<\/em>, they&#8217;ll squeak out an extra round or two.<\/p>\n<p>Now, I recognize that this isn&#8217;t 100% analogous to the old system. There are subtle but important differences between &quot;until the end of the creature&#8217;s next turn&quot; and &quot;until the end of your next turn.&quot; In the latter case, you yourself get to take advantage of whatever effect you put on the creature, during your next attack; in the former, you don&#8217;t. My system loses that level of granularity&#8211;or rather, makes it less predictable.<\/p>\n<p>But I think it&#8217;ll average out to close enough for <em>most<\/em> powers. And for those powers that really seem nerfed by the change, we can house rule the power as well to tweak it back to equality with others.<\/p>\n<p>So rather than having to keep track of whose turn effect X ends on, or whether it&#8217;s at the start or the end of the turn, all the DM has to do when someone suffers an ongoing effect is to mark H or E next to the description, and roll accordingly. No tracking, no real bookkeeping; just a few die rolls at the end of the turn.<\/p>\n<p>Thoughts, opinions, and any implications you don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m seeing are all welcome.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Warning: D&amp;D 4E blather ahead. Not a gamer or a fan? Probably not for you. As many of you already know, the purpose of the saving throw mechanic changed in 4E. It&#8217;s no longer to avoid a given effect; that&#8217;s what the array of defenses are for. Rather, it&#8217;s a (normally) fixed difficulty to shake [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-3911","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","6":"category-old-news","7":"czr-hentry"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3911","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=3911"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3911\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=3911"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=3911"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/mouseferatu.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=3911"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}